Feb 13, 2024
Voice acting is more than just a dulcet tone; it's about
connecting, taking direction, and sometimes swallowing your pride.
In this episode, we explore how frustrations in the booth can
mirror challenges in personal and business relationships—choosing
success over being right is an art in itself. We underscore the
importance of humility and remaining teachable in an industry that
demands constant evolution. Whether you're a newcomer to the mic or
a veteran seeking to refresh your skills, this episode promises to
arm you with insights and strategies to elevate your voiceover
career.
00:01 - Intro (Host)
It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level.
These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being
utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business
like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne
Ganguzza.
00:20 - Anne (Host)
Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss
Superpower series. I'm your host, Ann Gangusa, and I'm here with my
very special guest boss co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau, hey, Annie,
how are you I? Am doing amazing. How about yourself? Wonderful?
Happy New Year. Happy New Year to you too.
00:40 - Lau (Host)
This is our first podcast since New Year's.
00:42 - Anne (Host)
That's right. Right, you know I'm starting off the New Year with
some new students and I have come across this before and I want to
ask you if this has happened to you.
00:53
There are some students if they're just starting out and I know
we've spoken about this before Sometimes you don't know what you
don't know, and sometimes it's hard for you to hear what you sound
like. And there are many students who come to me thinking that they
don't need coaching and that they're fine. They just need to be
able to create a demo and they sound fine. And people tell them
that they have the best voice, and so I like to call them voiceover
virtuosos, and I was just wondering if you've come across that as
well, where you've had maybe talent that seemed to think that they
don't need coaching, or that they're better than maybe they are,
and I don't mean to be so bold to say that, but I'm not quite sure
how else to explain it.
01:37 - Lau (Host)
And this is a really tough kind of non-PC conversation because we
want to be kind and have some etiquette, Absolutely, and be
courteous. We're not here to rip people apart and make them feel
bad about themselves. That's counterproductive to who we are and
what we're here for right.
01:52 - Anne (Host)
Right and actually Law. I remember when I first started I did not
have an ear and I would think to myself I think I'm delivering what
I'm supposed to be delivering. It sounds like what I hear out there
in the other commercials, and so I don't hear where my coach is
coming from. I don't understand their direction, I don't see what
I'm doing wrong.
02:11 - Lau (Host)
So I don't think I'm doing anything wrong, and so I understand it
from that perspective, because, as a talent, I felt that way a
little bit myself, and I think it could be a combination of all
sorts of things, whether it's lack of resources, whether it's pure
laziness, whether it's not having the ear, or it could even be that
I don't know what I don't know.
02:33 - Intro (Host)
I don't know what I don't know, like I don't know what I'm missing
because I haven't done it yet.
02:37 - Lau (Host)
I haven't done the training right.
02:39 - Anne (Host)
Yeah, and I don't know what it's supposed to sound like.
02:42 - Lau (Host)
And so how do I know if?
02:43 - Anne (Host)
it's incorrect. And sometimes it ends up being where you're like I
don't understand what my coach is saying, and then sometimes you'll
question the coach. Even I've actually had some people question the
coach. It's so interesting. It's such an interesting
phenomenon.
02:58 - Lau (Host)
It is an interesting phenomenon and it happens at all levels too
that I observe. I had a coaching session for a client, a brand new
client, on Saturday and a working actor a working voice actor
clearly booking and booking a good ratio overall was frustrated.
She wasn't getting the natural read and getting commercial
bookings. Long story short, she's a pro, she's working
no-transcript. After we did that hour she confessed. She said I
have to be honest, law, my mind is a little blown because I didn't
even think of any of this stuff. I didn't work on it. I said well,
that's our reality. That's why we're always in professional
development. Yeah, yeah, there's new ideas, new techniques, new
ways of thinking about things that bring out Something in you that
you simply can't do on your own. You're not able to do it on your
own right.
03:46 - Anne (Host)
Well, I think, when it comes down to it, you are providing a
service to someone and you need to be able to be directed To the
sound that they would like to have, right? There are lots of
performances out there that are simply directed to how the person
that's directing here's it in their head. Now, does that mean that
it is, I don't know, that natural Conversational read that
everybody asked for in the specs, because that just seems what
everybody asked for a lot of times. No, I mean what comes out in
production. It may not be that.
04:19
However, over and over again, casting directors and agents are
looking for that read. And I think when you get to the level where
you have an agent and you have casting directors that are asking
for that, you need to bump up your acting to that level. And just
because you're booking Over and over and over again, first of all,
consider the source of where you're booking, consider the source of
who you're booking with. It might be an e-learning gig, it might be
a corporate gig, and they may not be as how shall I put it as
Selective, yeah, of a director that's looking for that natural
read. Now, myself as a coach law and you as a talent agent, I am
always asking my students to give the most natural engaging acting
performance, because that is the only way I know to teach my
students to be able to have the Versatility to give a director what
they want. No matter what they want, whether they want a
commercially sounding read, an Announcement sounding read or a
natural read and there's.
05:18 - Lau (Host)
You know, you can't skip over the fact that there's a fun
factor.
05:21
There's a performative fun factor that when you're working with a
director or a coach or an outside party who's giving you
suggestion, giving you food for thought, pulling things out of you,
there should be a right keyword, should there should be this
Excitement, this energy, this yeah, herb about doing that and
making discoveries and having that audience with you.
05:42
And I think if you miss out on that, you say I don't need any, that
I'm gonna skip over as much training as I can, I'm gonna save
money. I think you're really skipping over a pivotal part of what
makes us us that when we're in the booth alone and when we're doing
our own self-tape or whatever we're doing, we can call upon those
experiences. It's like a sense memory thing. I can remember what my
coach said to me, I can remember how I was directed and then I hear
their voice, like as an actor, I literally hear their voice and I
can go with that. If I miss all of that, then I almost have to put
a lot of stress on myself to create that, to inspire the creation.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
06:25 - Anne (Host)
I think there's a lot to be said for really knowing the director,
or understanding the director that you're working with too, in
terms of there's a lot of things that come into play here. Where is
this going to air? Is it local versus regional, versus national? Is
it going to be an internal website? And so understanding and being
able to supply the read that the director is looking for is so very
important, and I think that the more you develop your acting
skills, the better you can understand that and be able to give that
director what they're looking for and also understand, like, for
example, I was just discussing with you earlier that I had a local
political spot right, and, of course, they ended up putting a ton
of verbiage into a 30 second spot, which is almost impossible at
the speed.
07:17
I was going to sound natural and engaging and conversational,
because I needed to step up the pace. I kind of knew that. I knew,
okay, here's a local spot, I'm going to have to step up the pace a
little bit. I'm not going to be able to give this person a natural
read. They weren't asking for it either, though, and so they really
just wanted certain words that were inflected properly, and just
having the experience and understanding what they were looking for,
I was able to provide it almost I'm going to say not immediately,
because there really were too many words for the scripts that we
did have to cut out a couple of words.
07:48
But once that happened I mean I had a good idea in the beginning of
what they were looking for. And I think as you get more experienced
in this field and you start working with different directors,
you'll understand. You'll be able to kind of read a director and
figure out what it is that they're looking for and then be able to
adjust your performance appropriately. But you need to have those
acting skills in order to be able to adjust your
performance.
08:12 - Lau (Host)
That really is what makes you the pro that you are, because it's
not only about the talent and the delivery, it's also about the
timing, how quickly you work.
08:21
Are you focused, like all the bad habits that we have as people in
the world we have to train ourselves out of, and we need help doing
that, because sometimes we're just not aware of them that I'm
constantly looking at my cell phone to check messages, or I'm
fixing my whatever, or I'm not listening, or I'm not acutely taking
notes on what I'm hearing, and so that's really important too, to
practice that, that taking direction.
08:48
Really, that could be the kiss of death for you. If you're not good
at listening, if you're not accurate about interpretation, asking
just the right question and giving them what they need, then you
look like a time waster, then you look like someone who's just kind
of like flailing around and costing a lot of money on the other
end, versus someone who can get right to. You know, one of the bad
habits that I have a number of actors that do this and voice over,
that do this is they explain, they start to get into explanation
mode, they start giving the narrative oh, I'm so sorry, and the
apologies unnecessarily. I'm so sorry. I was only doing that
because you know I was thinking about my mother and not
understanding the difference between what is a coaching session and
what is a casting session and what is a booking session and what
are really the differences, you know, and not expecting something
from the wrong person, like I can't expect feedback from casting,
necessarily, or from a client necessarily.
09:44
Sure sure, you're either going to book me or they're not going to
book me, right? So clients are busy, right? The coaches should be
giving me the feedback that I'm looking for. So if you don't do the
process, then you don't get the feedback, then you literally are in
the dark. Yeah, what you're giving, right? What you're giving
out.
10:00 - Anne (Host)
It's also hard to and again, we're not trying to shame anybody or
make people feel bad.
10:04
It's just simply when you are first starting out and you're
questioning. But here I feel like I sound. I sound better than that
commercial, I sound better than that person. Again, developing an
ear and I think there's a whole scientific process to it as well is
what you hear in your head and what you hear in your headphones. If
you have your headphones on and you're delivering something or
you're recording something is very different than what somebody
else is hearing on the other side of the glass.
10:30
I should say across the pond, across the pond on the other side of
the glass, because on the other side of the glass they have their
own ideas as to what they are looking for. That sound to be like
Right and you always want to assume that if they've given you
casting specs where they want it to sound natural, like you're
talking to your friend Right? There's so many things to take into
consideration. Yes.
10:53
And first of all, I'm going to say there are some clues. If it's
probably someone who's been in the business for a long time, I
think you can bet on the fact that they're going to be able to tell
you if you're sounding natural and authentic. And also sometimes,
if all they do is automotive commercials, what is it? Tier 3? Cliff
Zellman would know this. Tier 3, tier 1. Tier 3 automotive
commercials. That's typically a high powered cell. You'll also be
able to tell a little bit by how it's written. So I think there are
clues that you can research before you're in the middle of that
session and also understand that when you're in a live directed
session, just like you said, that can be entirely different than
when you're in a coaching session. And so when you're in a coaching
session with a trusted coach okay, it has to be a trusted coach,
and again, that's hard for people that are just coming into the
industry who's a trusted coach? Well, there's lots of ways to find
that out and I think we probably have a couple of episodes on
that.
11:46
How do you know, like, who to coach with? And a lot of times, word
of mouth will be one of your best bets on that, and also
testimonials and ask around and talk to potential coaches to see
what's their experience level. Do they work in the industry? I'm
not saying all coaches need to work in the industry in terms of do
they need to do voiceover. There's very few out there that are good
that they're not actually voice artists, but they're actors,
they're teachers who teach acting as well. But also, if you've got
a coach that works in the industry, that's going to be helpful too.
And if you're new, just because you're frustrated and that's a big
thing law that I see is that people get so frustrated and when they
don't understand well, I don't understand what you're asking for,
or I don't understand what I'm doing wrong, or you're
not.
12:34 - Intro (Host)
And they start to argue and they say you are not.
12:36 - Anne (Host)
I don't understand your direction, and so they'll start to put the
blame on the fact that there's not good direction. Now, sometimes
there isn't good direction, right, sometimes there just isn't if
you're not with somebody who may have been in the industry for a
while and is good, which is why I don't love pure lead workout
groups law only because I don't either. When you're listening to
direction from another peer, who may not have enough
experience.
13:00 - Lau (Host)
that may set you on the wrong path, in a way though, annie, isn't
it good in the sense that you're going to get bad direction at
times? Yes, you really are Like we can't assume that. Oh, they're
professional, they're a company, they're going to give us great
direction. Sometimes you're being directed by Jim in Cubicle C who
knows nothing Absolutely. It's kind of an interesting improv
exercise to learn how to say yes and learn how to say oh. That's
interesting, okay, let me try that. Oh, how, wow, okay, and you're
thinking what? That's ridiculous. I don't even know how he came up
with that.
13:32 - Anne (Host)
That's half my directed session. That's your whole world.
13:35 - Lau (Host)
But the point is that's the reality, right. We have to deal with
that Absolutely. We have to be able to tolerate that and you have
to be able to deliver and not argue.
13:41 - Anne (Host)
Not argue it Not question that you have to be able to deliver what
they're asking for and, by the way, anybody that coaches with me,
of course you can give me the read that you hear in your head, but
that's not the read I'm looking for and even if the script doesn't
seem like that's what it's written for. That's the biggest argument
I get is people are like but the script isn't written that way and
I'm like I don't care.
14:00
The worst thing is that you'll get a script that's written very
advertising, very selly, and then you'll get the specs that say
give me something like you're talking to your best friend, and
then, ultimately, my student will deliver it the way it's written
and very advertising and very annoncery and other things. But
that's not what I asked you for, but that's not how it's written.
I'm like that doesn't matter. I'm asking you to give me a very
engaged read and that is a very tough read and one of the reasons
why I insist on that is because if you can get yourself to that
level, to a very engaged, authentic read, when it's written very
advertising, very selly, that's going to get your acting skills Up
to the level that I think you need to be able to give
versatility.
14:43 - Lau (Host)
Yeah. And ask yourself this question, which really we could ask
ourselves in a lot of situations like being married. I've been
married 23 years. Sometimes I literally have to self direct and
say, all right, do you really want to argue that? Do you really? Is
it that important to argue that? Do you want to be right, yeah, or
do you want to have a happy marriage? So, in terms of your business
relationships, do I always want or need to be right, yeah, yeah,
absolutely or do I really want to have success in this connection?
And I choose the latter. I try very hard to choose the latter. By
the way, did you see that catch of the light falling over? That's
my theater experience.
15:21 - Anne (Host)
I don't know if you caught that. No, I didn't, it was falling right
on me.
15:24 - Lau (Host)
I was making a point, I put it right there. That's kind of like the
metaphor of life. You always have things falling on you, right, but
it's just kind of like is it more important to have it perfect or
is it more important to have it done? Just get it done, please, the
client, have that callback for the next job. It's not that
important that I make the point that the script is wrong.
15:46 - Anne (Host)
Oh God, absolutely. That's the last thing you want to do.
15:47 - Lau (Host)
That's what I'm trying to say we never answered that funny question
at the top about how do we deal with all the talent that come in
and they really kind of think they're ready for certain things
they're not ready for.
16:01 - Anne (Host)
Well, and then there's always the difficult position. If they think
that they don't need additional coaching or additional sessions,
then they think that you're trying to take advantage of
them.
16:11 - Lau (Host)
Oh, of course, and make money, yeah, to make money, that's
right.
16:15 - Anne (Host)
I mean, look, I guess you just have to know who you're working with
and there is a level of trust you have to have. And again, it's so
hard for people that are just starting out in the industry and we
always emphasize to see if you click with your coach, Trust your
gut instincts as well about your coach. I'm going to say and I'm
going to say that, like if you don't know the industry and if you
start questioning your coach, then it becomes like is that a
relationship that you want to continue? If you're?
16:44
at that level where you're questioning if what they're saying to
you is correct, exactly.
16:49 - Lau (Host)
And if all else fails, you have to do what we used to do in the
theater when we'd go to see our friends in a really bad show and a
really bad performance, and they'd always come out backstage and go
what did you think of it? Did you like it? I was like great, I
worked hard. You have to think diplomatically. What would you
really say to them? And we would have a ball coming up with things
like. That was interesting. You really challenged yourself. I was
moved. I mean, you really surprised me there, right?
17:19
So you have to think about how do you respond to people that really
need a lot more. They need more training, they need more time, they
need a better demo. And they're like oh, I just spent 3,000 on this
demo. You telling me I suck. I'm like no, I'm saying this is your
starter demo. This is your first demo. It's a process demo. It's
good for what it is. Now you want to get to the next level of
things. It's not about yes, no, right, wrong. It's not structurally
black and white in that way. It's much shades of gray shades of
gray nuance, nuance, nuance. You know what I mean? Absolutely. And
the talent has to realize that it's not. You're good and it's done,
or you're not good and it's not done.
18:00 - Anne (Host)
Gosh, that's so true. It's not like, okay, I'm good, I have my
demo, I'm good, I'm ready, I'm ready, I don't need any additional
training. I'm constantly telling my students actors spend their
lives honing their craft. Yes, I feel as though, like if you're
thinking about like Meryl Streep, do you think Meryl Streep
achieved her acting from the get-go, from the very beginning? Has
she not, over the years, improved, taken on more challenging roles
and just really challenged herself?
18:28
And I think that, as voice actors, we all need to do that, whether
you're just starting out even if you get booking after booking,
after booking after booking and again understand who your client
is. If you're doing a lot of e-learning, you may not have a very
demanding client. They may just want you to read it nicely and
articulately. But when your coach says to you, please do not just
read it to me, I want to feel as though you're my teacher, I want
to be able to listen to you for the next two hours and be engaged,
then understand there's a reason why they're saying that and maybe
not question that and say, well, it's good enough, because I think
to really get to the upper echelon right, to make it and to be
successful, it takes time.
19:12
It does, and I think there should be a whole episode of like how
long does it take? I know I've done it before, but I feel like it
bears with eating. Yeah, and there has to be. It can take more than
a year and honestly, it should take more than five or six sessions
with a coach to be a good actor. Goodness gracious. No, it takes
much longer than that.
19:31 - Lau (Host)
Absolutely, absolutely. And just know that there has to be an
element, or there should be an element, of humility and being
humble and having some modesty about your work. I always have a red
flag If I work with people that they're very egocentric and they're
all that. They're great. You should recognize that I feel like the
best actors talent colleagues I know are people that have value.
They recognize their confidence level, their self-esteem. But
there's a lot more to learn.
20:01
There's always there always so humble I think there isn't that
sense of like. You're talking to me. You know who you're talking
to. I'm a pro. I always have a red flag about that, because I feel
like they've stopped their process.
20:13 - Anne (Host)
They stopped their learning, they stopped their growth, they
stopped their learning.
20:16 - Lau (Host)
Yeah, they stopped their growth and they're going to challenge you.
They're going to question you, they're going to argue with you,
they're going to take it up with you if you don't agree with their
mindset, and so I think they're going to be harder to direct harder
to work with. Yes, yes, yes. So I think it all goes hand in hand.
It's like be kinder, be more open and modest, be a little bit. I'm
not saying be insecure about who you are.
20:37
I'm saying have security, have confidence, have joy about who you
are and what you're doing, but also leave a lot of space for growth
and development and discovery. You have to have humility in order
to do that. You can't think you've done it all and know it all and
are ready for everything. None of us are ready for everything,
yeah.
20:55 - Anne (Host)
Yeah, agreed, agreed. And also, when you are challenged from your
coach right, and there's something that you're not agreeing with,
try to keep an open mind. I think that's the one thing that we can
ask of you as an actor try to keep an open mind about what they're
saying. So try not to take it so personally, number one, like when
somebody is telling you that this is not. I don't think a coach
will say, oh, that was horrible. But there are some that might say,
oh God, no, no, no, no, no. Let's try that again, and it might be,
really fighting with your confidence level.
21:30
So really just try to. When you're being challenged by your coach,
try to keep an open mind, try to not take it personally, and I know
it's so difficult to do that because to me it's like, oh my God,
like you're telling me, I'm not good, and that's the first thing
that comes into my head. I'm like, oh my God, I'm not good, I'm not
good.
21:47 - Intro (Host)
And so then that just ruins the next read.
21:50 - Lau (Host)
It's a catapult and don't explain. Yeah, don't narrate, don't
explain, don't justify, don't do any of those things, because it's
not a blame game. It's a time to give more information and more
detail. And then on our side, we promise, annie, and I promise not
to say things like don't quit your day job.
22:09 - Anne (Host)
Exactly, exactly, unless it's a joke unless it's a complete joke
and that you're aware of it, of course.
22:14 - Intro (Host)
But yeah, I basically don't say that.
22:16 - Anne (Host)
But I am tough, I don't want to waste my student's time and I don't
want to waste my time, and so if a read is not going the way that I
like it, I will say nope, nope, I'm going to stop you right there
and let's pick it up again. I'm not going to have you go through an
entire read and then I'll say no, because, first of all, I think
that for a lot of the work I do, it's long reads anyways, it's long
format, and so it's better if I stop at the point where I can make
a teaching moment and the student can learn from it at that
particular time. But sometimes people will get discouraged by that
and it's such a tough thing it really is Because, again, what we do
is so personal.
22:54
And if a coach is continually stopping. Nope, nope, that's not it.
Nope, that's not it. Okay, I don't believe you, I don't feel that
You're not connected, and that's what you can look for with your
coach.
23:04 - Lau (Host)
Right, how does your coach respond to you, give you feedback, give
you critique? Do they lose their temper? Are they getting angry?
Are they getting irritated? Is it taken personally? I mean, just
start looking for that.
23:14 - Intro (Host)
Right.
23:14 - Lau (Host)
Some people love that. I've had people come to me and say look, be
tough on me, S&M style, rip me apart. I'm tough and you know,
the funny thing is the first thing I say they fall to pieces
because I can be really tough and they're like Really, Are you
really think that I'm like? I thought I could be tough, so? But I
mean, I think that there's a professional barrier there. Yeah,
absolutely, that you have to pay attention to just as a best
practices protocol. Yeah, you don't want people tearing you down.
You don't want people making you feel bad about being a person and
what you're doing and the choice that you're making in your career.
You want someone to say I'm going to make the leap of faith and
assume you want to be doing this, You're going to get good at this
and you care about it. Now let me take you to the next level of
where you're at.
23:58 - Anne (Host)
I work with people all the time because long format narration
right, and it's tough. Yeah, I work with people at a very intense
level and so it's frustrating. People think they're going to get it
by tomorrow and it's one of those things. It's no, it's just really
difficult. I really ask a lot of my students and so there are a lot
of times my students will get very frustrated and they will start
to take things very personally. But it is not that at all for
me.
24:22
I mean, I'm an educator and anybody that's worked with me knows my
heart of hearts is to educate and that is what I try to do. And
even though it is very tough sometimes then it becomes like not
only am I educating on the acting part of it, but then there's the
whole mentality part of it where you've got the added oh gosh, now
I'm hurt, right. Or I've instructed somebody, I've given them
direction and they have now taken it personally, and so that then
is also affecting their retake or their read again, and so there's
a lot of things that can build up. So just know that if you've got
a good coach that's working with you, their intent is to really
make you a better actor. I think that's something that your gut
intuition can really tell you a lot about that.
25:05 - Lau (Host)
Yeah, and be honest with yourself.
25:07
Like, take a checkpoint and say how much honesty am I willing to
take? Can I put on a little bit of armor and be able to take the
truth? I've had a lot of people say law, just be truthful with me.
I'd appreciate it, because they're spending money and they're
spending time, and so truth does not mean like kick my butt. It
does not mean like rip me to shreds. It means be truthful about
what your perception is, so that I can get better. That's all it
is. You know what I mean. Absolutely. I love this Great
conversation.
25:37 - Anne (Host)
Yes, law. Oh, my goodness, wonderful conversation. So, bosses out
there, we know, we know you can do it, but I want you to just give
yourself some grace, listen to your gut and really find a trusted
coach that you can work with and work through all of this, because
it's not something that's simple and, more than likely, if you
haven't been doing this for a few years now, you may not be as good
as you think you are, and I mean that in the nicest way possible, I
mean that in the most teacher-centric way possible. So give it a
shot, guys. All right, yeah. So take a moment and imagine a world
full of passionate, empowered, diverse individuals giving
collectively and intentionally to create the world that they want
to see. You can make a difference and you can find out how at
100voiceswhocareorg. Also, big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You
too, can connect to network like bosses. You guys have an amazing
week and we'll see you next week. See you next week, bye,
bye.
26:42 - Intro (Host)
See you next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host,
ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for
our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content,
industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock
your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to
coast connectivity via IPDTL.
27:09 - Anne (Host)
Hey bosses, woohoo, I'm so excited to announce our third audition
demolition coming up live September 27th and our uh, it died. Ugh.
Oh, all right, damn it. Good morning, kiss me off. Kiss me off.
That was good. I didn't know. F***ing sh**. Audition deadline the
20th. Okay, september 27th, all right, that's my problem. I just
don't have it in front of my face, so that'll end up with
bloopers.