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The VO Boss podcast blends business advice with inspiration & motivation for today's voice talent. Each week, host Anne Ganguzza shares guest interviews + voice over industry insights to help you grow your business and stay focused on what matters...

Nov 16, 2021

You know your favorite brands stand out, but do you know yourself well enough to blend your business & creative persona into cohesive fonts, colors, and branding? If not, Anne & Laya are here to help! In this episode, they’ll explain how to put your best virtual foot forward through introspection,crowdsourcing, and (most importantly) acting like the #VOBOSS you already are.

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>> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.

Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with my very special guest cohost, Laya Hoffman. Laya, thanks for joining me again in this new series on modern mindset. I'm so excited to have you.

Laya: Yeah, thanks, Anne. It's been great so far, love being back, and I'm super grateful for the opportunity. Thanks for having me.

Anne: Yeah. So we've been talking about modern mindset, and our last few episodes, we're talking about just in general, having a modern mindset towards your business, as well as towards your health.

Laya: That's right.

Anne: I'm thinking we have to touch upon everyone's Achilles heel. Maybe not everyone's. I mean, I happen to like marketing, but we should talk about a modern marketing mindset because you have a background in marketing.

Laya: Yeah, that's right, Anne, I sure do. I'm a former creative marketing agency partner. And, uh, after that I was the vice president of marketing for a major beauty brand that was a global brand and in the professional hair care line. So it's definitely a different field, but a lot of similarities as it pertains to branding identity, marketing, SEO, outreach, and just overall good client engagement in this new modern world. Right? And when we talked about that earlier, it's just, how do you approach that differently? It's a lot different than we were taught in college or in textbooks and things.

Anne: Oh, for sure.

Laya: You gotta adapt.

Anne: And also I think it's important. I think it's great that you have real-world marketing experience from before --

Laya: Sure.

Anne: -- and even leading up until modern times, because I think as creatives, if you did not come from that environment, it's hard to know even where to begin for marketing. I mean, that's -- most students that are just starting out when they're talking to me, they're like, oh my God, can you please just tell me, like, how do I even start to market myself?

Laya: Sure, sure.

Anne: So let's kind of start there. I think that for people just entering into the industry, as well as let's say, industry veterans, we still have to spend a considerable amount of time marketing ourselves because I'm always trying to find that next great client, because today's client is never promised.

Laya: Absolutely. And you got to stay fresh and stay current. And a lot of that comes down to knowing who you are as a person, as a creative and what that means as a brand. Right? And so how can you package all your skills and your specialties in this brand? And I got scared by that too, even as an ex-marketer coming into the entrepreneurial space and being a one person show.

Anne: Yeah.

Laya: It's really hard to talk about yourself, and I can do it for everybody else. I can package everything else in a boat. Talking about yourself feels totally bonkers.

Anne: Right? Yeah. Big difference.

Laya: And then you figure out your brand, which is a very scary place to sit. And there's a lot of great experts, even in our industry, that focus on that, creating a brand for your voiceover, but you certainly have a great one. And you know, you know, you've got colors, you've got the BOSS vibe, you know, you know what your specialties are. You know what Anne Ganguzza means in the industry because you've done an excellent job branding. And I think --

Anne: Well, thank you.

Laya: -- for a lot of us that -- you're welcome -- that's the starting point. And it's kind of a scary place to start, but if you don't know your brand, how you gonna know the next step to market, right?

Anne: Yeah. That makes sense. So then the very first step then before you can market something, right, is to really have something to market and to really be fully aware of your brand. And I know that that makes sense, when people come to me also for coaching, whatnot, you have to have a demo, right? You have to have something that you can market and then applying that brand to that product.

Laya: Yeah.

Anne: And so what are your first steps in branding yourself? It's a tough one, right?

Laya: Yeah, it is. It's takes a lot of looking inward. Right? And figuring out if you just sat down with yourself and thought, what do I really like in life? What do I get excited about? What brands do I identify with because I feel like they align with my ethos or my moral compass or how I carry myself in the world? I like to start there because it's a lot easier, again, to identify yourself or where you find a parallel with other like-minded brands or people you look up to, or what have you. That's a great starting point because then you can draw from inspiration.

You know, for instance, I like extreme sports, snowboarding. I love connecting in nature. So what are some of those brands I like. What do I love to do on the side? Music, deejaying, parenting, but like in a holistic space, but I'm also very fun. I love color. I love to keep it fresh and like little rock and roll, a little street. So those types of things are kind of where I started to find out how I could position my own brand identity, and then find similarities among brands that I also identify with. Does that make sense?

Anne: Absolutely. I think it's also important to engage others maybe in terms of how they perceive your brand.

Laya: Great point.

Anne: And I know that there's a lot of people that will say, hey, I'm doing some branding work. Can you tell me a little bit about how you hear me, how you see me?

Laya: Yes.

Anne: What does my voice sound like? What are those adjectives? And interestingly enough, I've done enough of those. I personally haven't done enough of those, but I, I have researched myself, but asking your friends, asking --

Laya: Crowdsourcing, right?

Anne: -- I think probably, yeah, absolutely, crowdsourcing. I think that asking your clients, if you have any clients now, how they perceive your voice, if they could describe it. I think that's a, a wonderful place to ask outside of your voiceover friends. I think it's important to try to hit up any clients that you have already and just say, hey, by the way, if you had to describe my voice in three words, what would those words be?

Laya: Absolutely. So it's interesting because you can also take your personal interests and then align them with your vocal qualities and you can, and I would even suggest specifically not going to people within the industry, but people that don't normally call these things out. Then you're not hit with the same descriptive word either.

Anne: Sure. Exactly.

Laya: Right? That's kind of a cool approach to create some sort of amalgamation of where the starting points are for your brand. And then what images do you identify? You know, if you had three emojis that could describe, you know, who you are, what you love --

Anne: Well, that's a good question.

Laya: -- you know, what, what are some of those icons look like? You know, just, just, just ideas to get the creativity flowing, to try to create. And it doesn't have to be a moniker or --

Anne: Yeah.

Laya: -- a tag line necessarily.

Anne: Exactly.

Laya: I think we get really wrapped up in that. It can just be how you want to present yourself in the world in your headshot --

Anne: Sure.

Laya: -- or with the color scheme on your website. It doesn't have to be super elaborate. It can be, and that's catchy. But I think these days, you don't necessarily need a theme to have a brand about yourself.

Anne: yeah. I love that you said you don't need a tagline. I'm like right there with you. And as a matter of fact, I had a tagline like a long time ago when I first started, and it didn't really associate with me at all. It was just kind of just because I felt like I needed to have one. And so I love that you said, I don't think you need to have one, because as a matter of fact today, I don't really have one. If you go to, I'm more just about the colors and the fonts and just the, the look of the page and my photos. And I know you also have some really wonderful, expressive colors and photos --

Laya: Hey, thanks.

Anne: -- for your brand as well. And I think that that's super effective when somebody comes to your website, and I will say, we have talked about branding, and I think that branding needs to go somewhere. Obviously the first place would be, right, where do people come to find out about you, your website, which is so very, very important and probably your virtual storefront, where everybody kind of gets to know you, that in addition to your social media.

Laya: Absolutely.

Anne: So that brand can carry over into both your website and your social media. So it's important to have a sense of identity, a sense of who you are, but it's also important for you all to know that it doesn't have to stay that way --

Laya: Yeah.

Anne: -- or it can evolve it.

Laya: Absolutely.

Anne: My brands have evolved over the years. And if I were to show you what Anne Ganguzza brand looked like even just five years ago, well, a little further, it's completely evolved.

Laya: Yeah, me too.

Anne: And my colors have changed.

Laya: That's right. 'Cause we change, right?

Anne: Yup.

Laya: Like I wasn't the same person I was 20 years ago --

Anne: Exactly.

Laya: -- and I'm definitely not the same talent I was five or 10 years ago, as it, you know, pertains to my business and how I carry myself in the world. We're not even the same cellular composition as we were seven years ago.

Anne: Sure.

Laya: So that's totally true and something to really drive home, because we get really caught up in it. Do I need a logo? Do I need a tagline?

Anne: Yup.

Laya: Do I need a theme? Do I -- no! You just need to be you. And you might be similar to anything that identifies with you, but even just clean fonts, modern, clean lines, colors that resonate with you, that make you feel good when you look at what you've created, and if it feels good energetically to you, then that's really all that matters, because that's the most authentic way to connect with others that want to find you, right? So.

Anne: I totally agree with that. And I, and I also want to say something about, there's always been this, this mindset, or I'm going to say maybe an older mindset about, do we put photos of ourselves on our websites, because we are voice talent, right?

Laya: Yeah.

Anne: And we may or may not want to be cast based upon our appearance as we are just voice artists. Right?

Laya: Sure.

Anne: And I'm that person that says, I want to connect with my client. And I feel like my client can connect with me if they can see a picture of me and not a picture of my logo.

Laya: Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely agree with that, Anne. I think if you're comfortable, and you've got pictures that are clear in quality, or maybe you've even invested in some lifestyle photos --

Anne: Right.

Laya: -- I had, because I knew that I wanted to put my best self forward, but that you could see it in my eyes who I was, who are, you know, you could see my pride in my eyes and my smile. And I want people to know that when they're working with me. We don't get to meet in person. Like we used to, at least not anymore. So if you're okay with that, then I say, put your face forward.

Anne: Yeah.

Laya: If you're not proud of that, or if you're not really comfortable and that makes you uncomfortable, then absolutely use something more generic. But I'm about using the face.

Anne: Yeah, I am too. And I know for my marketing product, the BOSS Blast, a lot of times I will have my clients give me a headshot, because if that email is going out, I am always of the belief that people want to connect with the person, and they want to be able to hire the person. So whenever possible, I encourage my clients for the BOSS Blast to include their headshots so that we can market those as well. So, yeah, I think that's more of a modern mindset today, especially with all of this chaotic digital information that comes flying at us from every direction. And so with this modern marketing mindset, do you have any ideas, advice about how and where do we market ourselves on social media and what platforms?

Laya: Yeah. Great point.

Anne: I think for everyone, you have to have a website.

Laya: Absolutely.

Anne: I think in order to exist as a business in today's digital world, you have to have a website. But what do you think about marketing on social media? 'Cause there's so many platforms, like how do you decide which platform to use, which platform to market on?

Laya: Well, that's a great question. And if I could step back even just a snooch, I think the website is key. But before, when I was entering as a full-time talent, I didn't want to put myself out there until I had my package kind of complete, because you really do just get 15 seconds to make your first impression --

Anne: Yeah.

Laya: -- even in the digital space. So it was important to me to have a clear picture where you could see to my eyes, you could have, your icons are all the same. I had a home base, even though at the time, I didn't have a whole lot of content for my website. I built my website myself using the Squarespace platform, and I made sure that my email address wasn't a generic email address. You know, it was my name, and it's tied to my website. It's very inexpensive. There are many, many experts that can help you get there. So leading with like your most professional self, as if, I think the modern mindset is really as if you are already the success that you aspire to be.

Anne: Oh, I love that.

Laya: You need to act as if, and so even if that is just creating a small minimal package for yourself, which is what your color scheme is, your font or your picture, and you've got a home base with a dedicated email address -- it's not, you know, so-and-so at Gmail -- then, then you're presenting yourself as a pro from the beginning.

Anne: I agree.

Laya: And that's the important first step, I think.

Anne: I do just want to touch on that particular thing. I happen to notice reading some of the threads on Facebook, that there was somebody who said, why is it that I'm seeing all these Gmail addresses? And there were a lot of people who were saying, why? Everybody uses it, and myself, I agree with you. I tend to think if you're a serious business, you're going to have a domain name --

Laya: Right.

Anne: -- that is a part of your business. And you should have an email that is part of your business name.

Laya: Yes.

Anne: And I think if you just like so-and-so VO at Gmail, I think that it doesn't showcase a serious enough business.

Laya: It doesn't seem like you're taking your business seriously --

Anne: Yeah, yeah.

Laya: -- to me, to me.

Anne: Right.

Laya: And I say that not just about voice actors, but if I'm hiring a contractor, if I'm hiring --

Anne: Oh, me too.

Laya: -- I don't even know, any number of other industries that are self-driven or entrepreneurial. If that person hasn't taken the time to showcase their skills, in this day and age, and taken the $20 a year that it may cost to get them a special domain name and a, you know, an email address that goes with that, what other parts of your business are you not taking this seriously? Our client interaction, my dollars I'm spending on you? That's what that says to me as it pertains to that modern mindset. I think it's just one extra step. Make yourself the pro that you are, or that you aspire to be and fake it 'til you make it, but get, get yourself that package first, before you even think about going on social media and saying, look at me, look what I do here I am. Let me get a new client. I think that's base line one.

Anne: You also mentioned too, well, fake it 'til you make it, but having that website, even though you may not have a lot of content to put on that website, I think that's something --

Laya: That's okay.

Anne: -- I want to touch on. And yes, I want to tell everybody, all those BOSSes out there, it is okay.

Laya: Absolutely.

Anne: Everybody starts somewhere. And a lot of people that talk to me, if they're worried about, well, I don't even know what to write. Well, I think that when you're just starting off, you've got to be able to establish your brand, as we've talked about. Also have that product viewers that you can market, which is a great demo, a great sample that showcases your voice.

And in terms of the content you're going to put on it, I was always of the, well, I'm manifesting success.

Laya: Yes.

Anne: So I'm going to create that website. I'm going to create that verbiage as if I am already have been in business for 20 years.

Laya: Yes, absolutely.

Anne: And so what can you do to fill up that content? There's a good question. What would you do to fill up that content, Laya?

Laya: I would tell my story authentically and just, you know, leverage the experience that you have had in life. Maybe it's in the medical industry, maybe it's in marketing, maybe it's in beauty or automotive, or wherever your background sits, there is relevance in your business now. And I think people are more interested than ever to connect with your most authentic self.

Anne: Yes, yes.

Laya: And so we'll talk about that as it pertains to social media. But you know, even if it's like, I found my love for this and I love being home with my family and I love telling your story, and I'm learning as I go, and I'm investing in myself, and I will take great care in investing in you and your story.

Anne: Sure.

Laya: And even if it's just a minimal little blurb that just says who you are, where you came from, and why you're here --

Anne: Yeah.

Laya: -- that's okay. You'll be able to build on that as you go --

Anne: Absolutely.

Laya: -- you know?

Anne: Absolutely.

Laya: Hopefully one day you'll be like Anne Ganguzza. You're building a new website.

Anne: Yeah.

Laya: So lots of content as you develop --

Anne: Yup.

Laya: -- and you can continue to nurture and grow that. I would say being apart of your website and your content development is a weekly process. I mean, I'm, I always got my hands in my website. You're constantly tweaking and adding. So it doesn't have to be this set in stone thing --

Anne: Yup.

Laya: -- but even just the basics, your contact information --

Anne: Agreed, agreed.

Laya: -- front and center.

Anne: Oh yeah.

Laya: Your sample demo above the center --

Anne: Above the fold. Above the fold.

Laya: Above the fold. And as you go, you can continue to build on that.

Anne: Well, and you know, what else I'm going to touch upon too, is a good bio, right? Talking about your space, why you're here, what you're passionate about in terms of how can that passion help the potential client.

Laya: Yeah. How can you be in service?

Anne: Exactly. Focus on the how you can be of service to them. And also in regards to experience, there's a lot of people say, well, I don't have any experience yet. I have never done a voiceover job. Well, your experience, your life experience --

Laya: That's right.

Anne: -- your career experience, a lot of times corporate experience. For me, you know, when I just started off, I had had a lot of experience recording telephony and welcome messages and phone trees. And for me, that was where I was able to put my experience level. You know, I had recorded thousands of telephony and IVR prompts. And so that became part of my experience. Nobody needed to know that I did it for my company --

Laya: Sure.

Anne: -- and that they didn't pay me for it because I wasn't lying.

Laya: That's not the story.

Anne: Right? That's not the story. But I, you know, but I absolutely had voiced thousands of prompts. And so think of what you have already done experience-wise in your life that can lend to your experience that can again be of service to the client.

Laya: Absolutely.

Anne: And that will be good content. And I love that you said --

Laya: Parenting, but like --

Anne: -- every week keep tweaking it. That's important because we grow, we evolve, and also it keeps your website fresh so that it makes for good SEO as well.

Laya: Absolutely.

Anne: Things keep changing. So.

Laya: Yeah. And we can talk about that in future episodes because SEO is a very, very key part of being found in search, but you don't have to focus on that in the beginning.

Anne: No.

Laya: Now, if you were, you know, fully established and you already have your content, then I think it's definitely a great time to invest in partners that have current and modern training in SEO and development, because there are a lot of people that you can find that can help supplement your site with blog posts, or maybe you're a great writer already. I know several excellent talent that are phenomenal blog writers and contribute often to their website. That's not me. I'm not the best writer, but it was a, some of my friends like Kelly Buttrick always says, "what you can't do, you can pay somebody else to do." So, you know --

Anne: Ain't that the truth.

Laya: -- there's other options. What you're not great at, outsource.

Anne: Oh yes.

Laya: That's a modern mindset too, for sure.

Anne: I love that.

Laya: Yeah. You can keep adding to it. It doesn't have to be set in stone, and there's many ways to skin that cat, for sure.

Anne: Yeah. The whole outsourcing is another, it's very much a modern mindset --

Laya: Yeah. You don't have to do it all!

Anne: -- for voice talent.

Laya: Wow, isn't that a revelation?

Anne: What doesn't bring you joy, guess what?

Laya: Right. Someone else -- brings dollars to somebody else.

Anne: Uh, my accountant is very happy that I pay her on a monthly basis --

Laya: Lots of joy.

Anne: -- for her to do her job. She loves it. She loves numbers, and I'm like, I am happy to give you joy --

Laya: Yes, exactly.

Anne: -- on a monthly basis, and you do what you do best because that is not something that brings me joy. So, and I say over and over again, I think I must have mentioned it at least 20 times on my podcast, that was one of the best investments I ever made --

Laya: Sure.

Anne: -- was to outsource my accounting. So.

Laya: And that's a great new mindset --

Anne: Yup.

Laya: -- because we don't have to do it all. Yes, you see all those funny memes about being the entrepreneur, the solopreneur who wears all the hats.

Anne: Yeah.

Laya: But if some of those hats itch your head and make you crazy --

Anne: Yes!

Laya: -- then like kick it off, friend, because somebody else can do that. And honestly --

Anne: Yeah.

Laya: -- your time may be more valuable and better served doing something else in your business.

Anne: Absolutely.

Laya: So keep that in mind always --

Anne: Yep.

Laya: -- whether it's website development or, you know, blog content or anything.

Anne: Yeah.

Laya: -- accounting, you know, so that's very key.

Anne: Doing things that bring you joy. Those will be the things that do not feel like they are work. So let's continue on the modern mindset of the marketing. And I know we can have probably an entire episode on social media, but just to kind of touch upon the subject --

Laya: Sure.

Anne: -- platforms. I've always been of the mindset that you want to be on the platforms that your potential client is on. And so --

Laya: I would agree with that, but it is an interesting new dynamic that clients are people and humans too. So they're scrolling and wasting their time on social media --

Anne: Just like we are.

Laya: -- just like the rest of u,s and they're scratching their heads.

Anne: Yup.

Laya: And so it's interesting how you stumble across new clients or new interactions. I think whatever platform you feel most comfortable on is the one that you can put your energy on.

Anne: Sure.

Laya: For me, I'm a little bit of an older generation, is -- like in my early forties, I can't believe I have to say that, but it's true. TikTok doesn't resonate with me, right, and Snapchat never really resonated with me, but I know tons of talent that have had incredible success and views on TikTok. Look at Heidi Ruin, Atlanta --

Anne: Yup.

Laya: -- Voiceover Studio, for instance, and that whole like --

Anne: Oh, absolutely.

Laya: -- voiceover battle. They saw a huge uptick in views and followers. I don't know if that converted to clients for them. For me. I actually do see client conversion on Instagram, and Facebook --

Anne: Oh, absolutely.

Laya: -- and LinkedIn and Twitter. I don't tweet a whole lot, but I make sure that my accounts are linked. So I have presence there. I don't nurture relationships there, because it's not my strong suit on that platform. But I do nurture relationships on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook. And I derive clients from there because I'm just enjoying their content. I care less about putting mine out there, although I am somewhat consistent. It is a pain in my butt, and I still do it anyway. So I stay relevant, but I think it's most important to engage with them. What are they into? What are they liking?

Anne: Sure.

Laya: Cheer them on, make a comment in a post and a like on what your clients are most into, and you will stay top of mind just by default. You don't have to be like, "hey, look at me --

Anne: Yup.

Laya: -- you got another job for me?" No, just cheer them on. That is an authentic way to connect socially.

Anne: You know, and it's interesting. Top of mind is so, so important in marketing. And by the way, I just want to add in YouTube --

Laya: Oh yeah.

Anne: -- in terms of the social media place where you might want to be, just because of the good SEO value. I've recently started a channel --

Laya: Vimeo too, actually.

Anne: Yeah. Recently started a channel where I've got some content out there. I do blog. It is painful for me. It's painful for me.

Laya: I feel your pain.

Anne: I do it. But there's all sorts of reasons why I go through the pain, because you know, I've got something to say. And even though I'm not the best writer in the world, it's really difficult to find a writer. Although I've searched, trust me, I have searched, not to necessarily outsource, but to at least get a bare bones blog happening for me, from my ideas, but it's difficult because they're not in my head. And so.

Laya: And they're not the expert. You are the expert, and your clients and fan base appreciate your expertise and you sharing that expertise as you do on the show and in a blog post. And I think if you take that expertise and pull it into a LinkedIn post, or a tweet, or a Facebook post --

Anne: Yup.

Laya: -- and somebody identifies with that or shares it with someone, and they see it, that just gives you more credibility. So as long as that comes natural to you, and it's authentic, it's going to resonate with others as well.

Anne: Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm glad that you, you were talking about being on the platforms that your clients are on because they like to just get sucked in just like the rest of us.

Laya: Yeah.

Anne: Because I, I noticed recently there's a lot of people are that they're all about LinkedIn. There's so much to talk about with social media --

Laya: Yes.

Anne: -- with just so many platforms and sometimes not all of the stuff that's flying around there is not healthy at times. And so --

Laya: So you got to manage your borders and boundaries --

Anne: Yeah.

Laya: -- even in social media, for sure.

Anne: Absolutely. And there's so many people that are like, okay, I'm just going to do LinkedIn, or I'm just going to do this platform. So I think we only have so many hours in the day. And so I think in terms of, you know, you've got to come up with that balance. You've got to, like I say, listen more than talk a lot of times. And sometimes things like, let's say, videos that you put on YouTube that may or may not talk about your voiceover business, but a passion of yours, similar to a podcast, right, that could be about a passion of yours, by default are helping put your brand out there and helping people, potential clients get to know who you are and keeping you top of mind. And those are, I think important, probably the most important things that your potential client will help keep you top of mind, right?

Laya: Absolutely.

Anne: If they're watching you on YouTube or they're hearing you on a podcast, and you're not necessarily selling them your voiceover services, but they are getting to know you as a person and then saying, you know what, I'd really like to work with that person --

Laya: Yeah.

Anne: -- because it is a meeting where they're hearing your voice, but you don't have to be like, hey, I'm a voiceover artist. Hire me.

Laya: Yeah. You don't have to always be like, look at me and look at what I do for work and my en- -- I mean, some people dedicate their entire Instagram account to their voiceover business or, you know, or only keep it private and don't let their clients in. There's that too. So it's really up to the individual person. For instance, I don't share a lot of my work on Facebook. I'm not very active on Facebook anymore, but it's, I use it as a touch point to connect with my friends and family. Instagram, definitely more work, professional, business heavy, but I also show some of the personality in there. On LinkedIn, I try to keep it more professional --

Anne: Yup.

Laya: -- less about my personal life. However, I like to share ideas in the industry. If I have nothing to say, I love to share other clients' content, may or may not have anything to do with me, but achievements they've had cheering them on, or advancements in the industry, new technologies, to get the conversation started, and to show my clients or the people that I'm connected with that I am staying top of mind by being relevant and educating myself, and sharing quality content in our same space. And so just depending on which platform you're at and how that feels to you and who your audience is, you kind of can tailor and tweak accordingly. That's my personal strategy. And you know, it works for me. So.

Anne: Wow. Good stuff. We could probably talk about this for hours.

Laya: And we will.

Anne: And we will.

Laya: Let's do a social podcast -- a social episode next, I think.

Anne: Yes. I think a social episode is absolutely coming up next for us. So in the meantime, BOSSes, try to develop, evolve, create, understand your brand. Make sure you've got something wonderful out there to market yourself and keep that modern mindset while you are doing so.

Laya: Yes.

Anne: I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor ipDTL, because they are of a modern mindset --

Laya: Absolutely.

Anne: -- using the latest technology to allow us to connect like BOSSes. You can find out more at You guys, have an amazing week --

Laya: Yes, thank you.

Anne: -- and we will see you next week. All right.

Laya: Absolutely. Have a good one, guys.

Anne: Bye-bye.

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