Nov 28, 2023
0:00:01 - Intro
It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level.
These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being
utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business
like a boss, a VEO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne
Ganguzza
0:00:20 - Anne
Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VEO Boss podcast and the real
boss series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with my real boss
co -host, Mr. Tom Dheere. Hey, tom, welcome to the show.
0:00:32 - TOm
Hello Ann, Thanks for having me back.
0:00:34 - Anne
Oh, Tom, we had the best episode last week on mythbusters busting
the myths about voiceover and telling the real truth. So we did
part one, we're back for part two, and boy do we have a lot of
great stuff to talk about. Yeah, I would like to start off with oh
gosh, it's just such a big topic these days Social media and voice
seekers. Is it going to get us work by posting on social media,
Tom? What do you think?
0:01:05 - TOm
Okay, there's like 15 qualifiers I gotta have when I'm gonna say
this. I hear you. So at the beginning, I'm gonna say that, for the
most part, voice seekers are paying absolutely no attention to
anything that any of us are doing on social media. Now, with that
in mind, that's a very broad brush stroke and for the most part,
they are not paying attention to your hey listen, check out this
explainer video I just did. Aren't I awesome? They're not paying
attention to any of that stuff. For the most part, if a voice
seeker is vetting you via your social media presence, it's to
either see if you're an NDA violator, to see if you're a client
basher oh, can you believe this stupid sentence they made me
pronounce, which I see every day on social media or if you're some
form of political or religious whack job that has the potential to
damage their reputation. Yes, exactly.
0:01:58 - Anne
Oh, absolutely, tom. And I'm gonna say, first of all, why don't we
step back and say how do you engage on social media? Like, for me,
it's all about entertainment, right? Yes, at this point there's so
much out there. If I'm going to social media, it's going to be
looking for an influencer that might be showing me about the brand
that I'm interested in. I might be looking at clothes or makeup or
curling irons and I want to find out how they work and if they work
great.
Now, I'm not saying that a voice actor can't be on social media and demonstrate that you have a great voice. However, I think that whole direct sale method which doesn't work for voiceover, right, whenever it's supposed to be sellier or an answery also pertains to social media. So that means just provide entertainment and as a hashtag maybe, or in the notes maybe, throw in that you're a voice actor, because people buy from people they know, like and trust, and that, I think, is what you use social media for and so entertain people, give them something of value, and then they'll pay attention and then maybe they'll say, oh, you know what she's got? A great voice. I love her personality. I bet you sound great doing this campaign.
0:03:07 - TOm
Yeah, so there's my social media presence as a voice actor and
there's my social media presence as the video strategist. So,
putting the video strategist over there, which is a different
animal, as a voice actor, I feel that my job is to just to
demonstrate my humanity.
I like that because I always tell my students be a good human, collect good humans, demonstrate your humanity online, which has a lot of virtue on multiple fronts. Well, one right now and this is something we could talk about is that I think more and more voice aegers are going to look to see that, when someone submits an audition, that they're actually not an AI, that they're an actual human being.
0:03:39 - Anne
Oh, I agree.
0:03:39 - TOm
So looking around and going okay, this person is a human. Okay,
cool. Yeah, that's a small percentage, but I think that percentage
will grow.
0:03:45 - Anne
That's how I've met my clients actually right and are they real?
Now see, I've got another idea for an episode. It's like have you
ever not gotten paid right? Well, I've met my clients in a lot of
ways and that's one way make sure they're human. I might actually
pick up a phone. Just saying I might pick up a phone to see if
there's a human on the other end of it.
0:04:02 - TOm
Right. So demonstrating my humanity as a voice actor is just people
work with people that they like people work with people that they
trust people work with people that aren't putting on
airs.
0:04:14 - Anne
And are authentic.
0:04:15 - TOm
Yeah, so I'm a geek. I like comic books. I talk about comic books
and superheroes. I like comic book movies and stuff. So a lot of my
content is talking about that. I live in New York City, I walk
around New York City with my wife, I take pictures of interesting
things I see in New York City and, yes, I do occasionally do a
social media post pertaining to some voiceover work that I've done,
but it's never about me. It's always about the product or the
service, the client or whatever. So, for example, I got a one voice
award nomination. Didn't win, but that's okay. I was in honor to be
nominated about it's a public service announcement I did for the
Humane Society of America that talked about the 4000 Beagles they
rescued from that lab in Virginia last year.
This PSA announced that all 4000 Beagles got adopted, so I got cast to do that and what I said in social media is that I have owned two Beagles. I'm a dog lover, I've owned two Beagles, so being given the honor and privilege of narrating that spot meant a lot for me as Tom Dheere human being Not about don't I sound wonderful in this and I got engagement through that. I got positive responses through both voice seekers and fellow voice actors, and just friends and family that are also following me on social media. So that's a way to do it.
0:05:32 - Anne
I think it just is not one of those things where you're going to
create an ad that says, hey, I'm a voice actor, let me voice your
copy and then run that out on social media. It doesn't work that
way. I think there's more of the relationship. I mean. To me,
social media has become all about relationship building and really
just entertainment, because we are just inundated with content and
chaos, online material, and so I think, for me, I go to social
media to kind of just get away from it all in a way, and I seek out
those things that entertain me or provide value for what I'm
looking for.
Again, for me, I'm a big shopper, I'm a big online shopper, so now I'm looking for influencers and I'm looking for video of influencers, and I will say that my example of somebody who's so effective at really creating business for himself is Stefan Johnson, who does a series on TikTok and Instagram where he talks about food and he does like food reviews and he's funny as hell and just the fact that he's entertaining he's funny as hell.
He's got maybe that hashtag voice actor. Everybody has come to know and love him because he's sent thousands of videos and he's got like a billion followers, and so, yes, that works amazingly well. And, tom, I know that we had discussed this earlier, but let's say you are the voice in a video game or the voice of a national brand, and the other thing, you want to make sure that you are on social media, that you're being careful that you're not, like crazy, bashing other people or doing something that would risk the brand integrity of the company that you work for. I mean, one of those famous cases back in the day when I think the first thing was, oh gosh, it was the Aflac. Was that the Aflac commercial?
the duck and people that just in a minute you can ruin a brand by saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing on social media. So I think you have to be very careful.
0:07:27 - TOm
I'll give you a name. Dropy example, because I'm very excited about
it, is that in a few weeks the Inspector Gadget video game releases
and I am Inspector Gadget.
0:07:35 - Anne
Yeah, you congrats which.
0:07:36 - TOm
I'm very thank you. I'm very excited about that and I had been
talking to my business.
0:07:40 - Anne
You are such an Inspector Gadget, I can totally, totally see that
Go go Gadget roller skates. Well cast, well cast.
0:07:48 - TOm
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, and so, as I was trying
to plot out a marketing campaign, I quickly realized it's not a
good idea, because I don't want to interfere with the brand that
is, inspector gadget and I don't want to interfere with the video
game production company that did it and I don't want to cause any
potential issues with my manager got me that audition that cast me
so I will piggyback retweet.
Yes, yes, absolutely, whatever they do very smart and say, and again, it won't be about me, it'll be. I watched inspector gadget when I was a kid and it was such an honor to be able to be the voice of a character that I loved listening.
0:08:29 - Anne
Tom, that's so awesome. I'm so happy for you. I mean thank you.
They don't call you the strategist for nothing. I'm just saying
that's a really wise strategy to retreat, retreat. Well, it is a
treat reacts now, I think yeah, reax what is it?
0:08:42 - TOm
yeah, what is that? Or?
0:08:43 - Anne
thread, re, thread it forward, that repost, all that stuff is
really wonderful, okay. So now I've got another myth. Okay, that I
hear all the time. Okay, coaches and demo producers, can we just
make our own demos? Can we just DIY? I can do it. You don't have to
spend all the money. Don't fall prey to the predators and look full
disclaimer here. I am a coach and I am a demo producer, so we are
talking about this. However, I do want to address that you know a
lot of people Will be crucified for doing their own demo. I can
certainly throw in my opinion as to why. I think maybe that's for
some people, maybe that's okay, but I'm gonna say the vast
majority. There's a good reason why we are out here producing demos
right.
0:09:28 - TOm
So most of the time when a person decides they're gonna record
their own demos because they can't afford to hire somebody to do
yes Percentage of those it's out of just arrogance. I can just do
this myself. I'll just go in my bathroom and close the door and
just do it, and I will have no training and I will be recording in
a not good environment and I'm just gonna direct myself because I
can do this.
0:09:49 - Anne
Yeah, I have the technology.
0:09:54 - TOm
This is what I tell my students and when I do speaking engagements
and conferences. The virtue of a demo producer is the virtue of a
demo producer like an Is not necessarily the finished product of
the shiny demo in your hand. I think it's three things. Number one
and or other quality demo producers is going to teach you genre
proficiency, how to narrate e-learning as opposed to video games,
as opposed to audio books as opposed to medical. So what muscles do
you need to flex to be able to do this particular genre well? And
there are always tips and tricks and nuances and subtleties for
every genre, and an experience coach and demo producer like and can
teach you that.
The second thing and this is a big reason why you shouldn't record your own is what I call ism detection. Everybody has their own ism. Some people talk fast, some people talk slow, some people upward and flex, some downward and flex. Some have regionalism and has not your ears so she can hear your isms, identify your isms, talk to you about why do you have those isms and is it a problem that you need to eliminate? Is it something that you need to learn how to toggle on and off like a switch, or is it something that you can use to enhance your performance and possibly enhance your brand. Sure, good demo coach like and, can do that.
And the third one is the art and science of self direction. Yes, oh yes, you have to learn how to self direct. It is practically impossible to teach yourself how to self direct in a vacuum. Yeah, and and other quality demo producers can teach you how to do that. So it's not the finished product, it's all the things that you learn. That gets you to that finished product or makes working with a demo producer important.
save your money, be patient. That's another thing, ann, about most voice actors coming into the industry is that they are distressingly impatient and they make big mistakes by spending all this money on products and services and coaches that will not move their voiceover business for because they're so desperate to do it.
0:11:51 - Anne
Or I'm going to say they come in and they don't have any money to
spend and I don't look. I'm not here to shame people who are
financially you know what I mean looking for a new resource or
revenue stream. But like in any good business, tom and I say this
over and over again you do have to invest, and one of the reasons
why you would save to make an investment, tom, you said everything
so eloquently and so well that really you don't have ears yet, and
so while technically you may be able to go, even if you had a nice
studio and you bought the best equipment and you have a good sound
and you're a musician right and you have the capability to put
things together, you know the software you don't necessarily have
the ear and you don't necessarily have the experience or understand
what content is driving this demo. How are you telling that story?
How is that being put together to really showcase your acting in
its very best light?
Because if you're new to the industry, you don't know right, you don't know what that is yet, and it's hard for you to hear that or have an ear for that, and so that's one of the best reasons to hire a professional. It's kind of like look, I worked in technology and I worked in computers and running our computer department and I did a website for years for the school district that I worked for. But do I make pretty websites? I know functionally what I want to do, but I cannot do the graphics. It's not what I was trained to do and so, therefore, hire somebody that's trained and then that's what they do all day, every day.
They work in the industry. They know what's trending, they know what's current, and that's why it really helps to have a vetted coach and demo producer, not just one that's going to take your money and give you a demo after a weekend. Again, that's the big misnomer is that I can do a couple of sessions and then get a great demo after a weekend. Well, if you've not spent any time actually studying and practicing to be a professional voiceover actor, you really don't have any business making a demo, because that demo, as Cliff Zelman always likes to say I always like to quote Cliff is a promise right that you're going to be able to recreate that sound any given day or night when you're being requested to. And so, if? Well, I guess if you do your own, you could probably reproduce that sound, but still I feel like without the coaching you're not going to be able to get to the sound. That is probably what most clients want without the work without the work involved.
right, you got to spend more than four hours of your life on voiceover to be professional, right, I'm just saying Nobody thinks they can pick up a violin immediately and start playing at a concert level.
0:14:25 - TOm
But everybody that has an interesting voice thinks they can start
doing voiceovers professionally immediately.
0:14:30 - Anne
And the other thing is self-study right, like coaching. Like you
can buy these online workshops and programs and I'm all for online
education. I have a VO peeps group. I have my own introduction to
voiceover kind of web series. I know, tom, you've got videos that
you sell and I'm not saying that you cannot do that to just buy
that and learn voiceover on your own. However, I'm going to say
there's great value in having a coach, work with you one-on-one, so
that they can really assess your voice vocally, brand your voice
and have that set of ears that can tell you oh I hear this
regionalism here. Oh, I hear this, I don't believe you. I need you
to make that script more believable. So there's a lot to be said
for having a valuable extra set of ears on the other end of that
and to help coach you through the things that you don't know
yet.
0:15:18 - Tom
Yeah.
0:15:19 - Anne
All right, and speaking of which, when we want to sell ourselves,
right Tom, there's something called a website which, for most
people, most of my students, is like an afterthought. They're like,
oh yeah, I got to get a website. Well, I can make my own website. I
can do a template on, I don't know, weebly or Wix or whatever that
is. What are your?
0:15:36 - TOm
thoughts. Well, it's funny because people have these assumptions
coming into the industry I need an agent, I need to join the union
and for many of them, it's I need a website, or it's I don't need a
website because I'm going to get a big honking agent immediately
and they'll just do all the work for me. The problem is is that
most voice actors don't understand why they need a
website.
0:15:59 - Anne
And why a voice actor needs a website is for a couple of
reasons.
0:16:03 - TOm
One is for just credibility. Just so if someone looks you up or if
you market to them and there's a website to go to, it's like, oh
okay, this is a human, possibly, hopefully, human being, and here's
their website and here's their demos and here's their verbiage and
there's a picture of them maybe or not, or a little about page or
something, or something like that, and it's like, oh okay, this is
who they are. So credibility is one thing. And then, if they get
that website, there's another myth, which is people are going to
find me through my website. They're just going to look stuff up on
Google, bing, yahoo or whatever and find you. And that is, 99% of
the time, patently false, because there are literally tens of
thousands of voiceover websites out there. So your job as a voice
actor is to build the website and then drive traffic to the website
through your direct and indirect marketing strategy.
0:16:55 - Anne
And make it functional so that people can actually find you,
contact you and hire you and pay you. Yes, that's it, yes, and to
that end your website.
0:17:05 - TOm
The most important thing that your website needs to do is one thing
have downloadable demos.
0:17:10 - Anne
Yes, I'm the big believer in first impressions Really make a
difference.
You know, if I go to a website and I feel like, oh God, this is just like every other website I've seen, and it's a little bit like antiquated or if I cannot access the information I need right away and functionally be able to navigate it easily, and also it has to be pleasant to look at For me. I mean, gosh, I worked in technology for so many years and I actually ran the web servers Back in the day. I knew Jumala and I used to put content into our websites, but I certainly am not a graphic designer by design at all. I mean, I didn't go to school for it. I know what I like, I know what looks pretty, and so for me to think that I could make it look beautiful, I'm gonna hire somebody that does that as a full-time gig and that I believe first impressions are everything, because when I go to a website, it immediately establishes an idea of the brand right, of who I'm dealing with, who I'm talking to. They're human, like you said, and I get a sense of who they are, and it also gives me a sense of trust. Will I trust this person to click the button to pay them or click the button to contact them? And that's what I want Because, again, I'm a big online shopper just saying God, people are gonna have this idea about me, but all I do?
I mean, gosh, the pandemic didn't help at all, right? So all I did was click, click, click, bye, bye, bye, because we weren't going anywhere, right? So online shopping is a big thing for people. And again, convenience, and also like, okay, should I? What do I feel about this product? How do I feel about this product? Is it good? Am I gonna buy something that's worth it, that's gonna be worth my money, and that is something that your website is a showcase of your brand, your value, your worth. And if you don't wanna invest in that, in that look, in that first impression, well, you might be losing business.
0:18:59 - TOm
Right. Everything, ann, you said is 1,000% correct and I'm gonna
give all you VO bosses out there a little bit of a break. So think
about this the vast majority of the work that you're gonna get when
you're early in your voiceover career is online casting sites.
Right, you join online casting sites, you do auditions, which is
short term. It's not short term because I'm still on them, but I'm
saying is it's the easiest way to get casting opportunities is
through online casting sites. While you are developing your
auditioning abilities, your rate negotiation abilities, your DAW
abilities, your project management skills on online casting sites,
you can start with a Wix or a Weebly or a Squarespace free site.
For starters, this is a basic, basic landing page and as you are
slowly building your direct and indirect marketing skills, and
evolving your brand and your brand and your portfolio.
Now you can start to take those gigs that you've booked, the brand that you have developed and slowly layer and build that website. So this isn't something that you should feel pressure to have perfectly right out of the gate, because once you get that shiny demo in your hand, you probably have no idea what your brand is and you have no idea what the industry is going to say to you I thought I needed to do commercials when I started the industry and then I found out that my niche is primarily e-learning, so it's okay.
Start with a basic website Wix and Weebly, squarespace, whatever and then, as you are developing yourself, do everything that Ann just said to get your website to a point. When you are ready to really hit the ground with direct and indirect marketing strategies and driving traffic to your website, it will be ready.
0:20:39 - Anne
Yeah, totally agree, totally agree. And people always say, well,
should I do my website? I'm just beginning voiceover. I always say
it's a good idea to start thinking about it because a website
evolves over time. I mean it's not like you're going to have a
perfect website overnight. God, if I were to show you pictures of
my initial websites, whew mine is the worst. And how it's
evolved.
0:20:57 - TOm
You know the Internet Archive. You can go to Internet Archive. Yes,
yes, yes, yes, once in a while for fun, I'll go and look at mine,
because tomdeercom was first created 2002. So my website is 20,
it's going to be 21 years old in a couple of weeks and it is a
dumpster fire.
0:21:11 - Anne
I had a microphone. I had a microphone as a logo, of course, with a
flourishy thing coming out of it, and I'm not saying hey look some
people have microphones for logos or built into the logo. I'm not
bashing it, but it was. Every other website that was a voice actor
had that microphone.
And yeah but that's okay. I mean, we learn, we evolve, and we evolve along with our brand. So, yes, all right, here's another one, and the last one I think that we'll have time for, and that is I need a 416. I need a U87. I need a TLM 103. I need really good equipment. Now I am speaking on a 416, but I will tell you that it took me 10 years to get that. So do I need great equipment, especially now because everybody says, since the pandemic, our home studios have to be like perfect, we have to have good sound for our additions, otherwise we may not get cast. What are your thoughts, tom?
0:21:59 - TOm
I think it's a parallel between developing that website and
developing your home recording setup. I started home recording in
2006 and I'm only on my third microphone.
0:22:09 - Anne
Oh my God, me too. Oh my God, oh my God, really that is
crazy.
0:22:12 - TOm
Wow, that's so weird, okay, okay.
0:22:14 - Anne
Wow, at2020, rode NT1A and then TLM 103 and then 416.
0:22:20 - TOm
My first one was a Samson something I don't even remember what it
was. And then my second one. It's an AKG perception 420. It's in my
closet because it's my backup mic. And then my third mic is the 416
I'm talking to right now, which I got this in 2016. So I've had
this microphone for about seven and a half years. Yeah, so I worked
up to it. It's crazy, because you can't spend too much money on a
microphone. You want to spend $10,000 on a microphone. You can, but
how many people?
0:22:50 - Anne
need that no.
0:22:50 - TOm
You can start with just a basic functional microphone.
0:22:54 - Anne
I have recommendations on my video strategy, just your
page.
0:22:56 - TOm
And I know Ann has recommendations, so I suggest you check out both
of them to check out some options, because there's a price range.
But the other side of that is that, yes, when a voice seeker is
listening to your audition, they're not just listening to your
performance, they're listening to your home recording setup,
because almost 90, almost 100% of the time these days you're going
to be booking your gigs at home, so it's important to have a good
sounding studio.
It's important to have a good standing, but your microphone is not as important as the treatment of where the microphone is, because if you buy a microphone, that's too good upfront and you have a lousy recording environment it's going to pick up every single flaw in your setup.
0:23:39 - Anne
I like how you really specified that, because I completely agree
with you. Your environment, I think is, even is the most
important.
0:23:45 - TOm
Absolutely, because your microphone is only as good or bad as the
environment that the microphone is in.
0:23:50 - Anne
So that could take a little pressure off you so invest in that
first is what I said, because then you can get a cheap microphone
and it'll sound great for the most part. Well, maybe not complete,
but it'll sound a whole lot better. It'll work.
0:24:02 - TOm
The output will be more comparable, because all you really need is
just clean audio with a decent noise floor, no major buzzes or
hums. And also, you know, on a sidebar, don't worry about EQ
processing, mastering and all that stuff. I don't know what you do
for your signal chain and stuff, ann, but I have almost nothing on
mine. My clients want raw audio.
0:24:25 - Anne
I have an Apollo and literally and just my 416.
0:24:29 - TOm
Yeah, I got my 416 and my Mo2, m2 and that's it no crazy
stuff.
0:24:33 - Anne
I mean, I do have a stack. I think it's important to have you know
a stack that you can run to kind of clean up your audio a little
bit.
0:24:39 - TOm
I do too.
0:24:40 - Anne
But yeah, I mean absolutely. But I will say that in this studio,
right, I love my studio, Tim Tippets, love, love, love, love my
studio.
Custom built by Tim, custom built by Tim. I literally could bring any mic I have. As a matter of fact, I have a USB AT2020 in here that I use for other applications because it only works with a USB mic. It sounds great in here and so, like I'm saying, is that you don't want to have a completely cheap mic? I mean you can tell the difference, but I will say that it took me almost 10 years before I worked up to a TNL103, but I had to have the environment first and then I could hear the actual difference between my NT1A, which was great, which worked for me for six years. I made a lot of money with that microphone in a decent environment, and that's a really reasonable priced mic, as well as your audio interface, which I'm not a big fan of. The Scarlett Focusrite just because for a while they had cheap components, they were introducing hissing and weird noises. I love the UR22, it's 169 bucks.
0:25:40 - TOm
That's the Steinberg.
0:25:41 - Anne
The Steinberg yeah.
0:25:42 - TOm
Yeah, I had the UR12, it was great.
0:25:44 - Anne
It worked for years and then I just upgraded to an Apollo, which I
love it, but it's also flighty and a little bit it's a little bit
flighty with my operating system, but that's okay. I mean I love
it. But I think that you can absolutely get away with a reasonably
priced microphone, as long as your environment is good and other
equipment.
0:26:03 - TOm
Right, and as you get more work, you will be reinvesting in your
training, you'll be reinvesting in your website and you'll be
reinvesting in your gear and specifically your microphone. So, it's
okay to start with a cost-effective microphone. You'll get better
once down the road.
0:26:15 - Anne
Absolutely, absolutely Well. And then, once you do have I've traded
right you have a good microphone. It lasts for years. Like gosh,
I've had my 416 for I don't know how many years and it goes
traveling with me too. I mean, I pull it out, it goes traveling for
years, so it's not like you need a new microphone every year,
although if you're a tech geek, I mean.
0:26:35 - TOm
Well, some people collect microphones just because it's fun, and if
you wanna do that, you can afford it.
0:26:38 - Anne
great it's like me, I have lipstick color clothes, boots, shoes,
handbags. Yeah, I need the new handbag. I need the new
mic.
0:26:45 - TOm
You need two. Yeah, you need one to talk into and you need a backup
in case something horrible happens Exactly backup's great, Some
have more than one if there's genre reasons, but the majority of
people only really need one microphone and then have one as a
backup in case something goes wrong.
0:26:59 - Anne
All right, I love this conversation, tom. Thank you again for
busting the mists via bosses. Don't believe everything you hear and
come to the source. Come to the real boss source. And that's with
Tom and I for this series. You guys, as individuals, you can have a
big impact, and as a group, you can have even more of an impact and
contribute to the growth of our communities in ways never before
possible. Find out more at 100voiceshoocareorg to learn how and big
shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl you too can connect and network
like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing
week, be real and we'll see you next week. Bye.
0:27:44 - OUtro
Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host,
ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for
our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content,
industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock
your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to
Coast connectivity via IPDTL.
Transcribed by https://podium.page