May 28, 2024
One of the first places voice actors often look for auditions is on Pay to Play sites. For a fee, these sites let you audition for jobs from potential clients all over the world. But these sites can have downsides, including unethical business practices. Controversy over these sites has been highlighted at voiceover conferences and throughout social media. In this episode, the BOSSES delve into navigating online casting platforms and cultivating loyal client relationships outside of these sites. We discuss the investment of time and resources needed to be successful and the importance of evolving with the industry to avoid getting left behind. Ever-evolving AI technology challenges us to redefine our roles and strategies, and we tackle this head-on sharing insights into how we can adapt to remain indispensable.
00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Hey VO Bosses. Ann Ganguzza here. Are you struggling to market that
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00:24 - Intro (Announcement)
It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level.
These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being
utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business
like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne
Ganguzza.
00:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Hey, everyone welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne
Ganguzza. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your
host, Anne Ganguzza, and we are here with the Real Boss series with
my good friend and guest co-host, Tom Dheere. Hey, Tom
Dheere.
00:55 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Hello Anne Ganguza.
00:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Tom Dheere, it was so awesome to see you at VO Atlanta. I have to
say.
01:01 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Yes, the drive-by hug Right.
01:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
I know and I saw you for like a split second, but still it was good
for that split second to get the hug in. Absolutely, I know the two
of us were insanely busy but getting back together since VO
Atlanta. There was a big bomb dropped at VO Atlanta with the Drama,
bomb.
01:17
Yeah, with the online casting panel, which began with an apology
from the CEO of Voicescom. And so, hmm, let's talk, shall we? Let's
dish, let's dish, let's, let's, let's fill some tea. So what were
your initial? Were you surprised and what were your initial
thoughts? And actually we should just recount for the bosses who
were not there at VO Atlanta, the very first thing, on a panel of
online casting with J Michael Collins, j Michael asked the acting
CEO of Voicescom was he prepared to apologize to the voiceover
community for the actions on behalf of Voicescom in the past few
years, now that David Cicerelli has stepped down and indeed there
was an apology. So, tom, were you there, present in the
audience?
02:07 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Well, yes, I was there. I was asked to be there actually. Me too,
me too Okay so you were part of that little group of people that
were asked to make sure that we would be present at the online
casting. Because then we could talk about it like this so then we
could talk about it, or we could step up to the mic and ask some
pointed questions.
02:23
But to give everybody a little bit of background is that Voicescom
has had a pretty bad reputation for a good 10 years, Because I
think the first great resignation was in 2014, which is when the
interview with Graham Spicer came out and the article that somebody
wrote showing how, you know, the same casting notice was posted on
Voice123 and Voicescom, but the Voicescom was thousands of dollars
lower. So they were caught kind of red-handed doing what many would
consider some unethical practices.
02:53
Double-dipping, triple-dipping, Right so Jay O'Connor, who is the
acting CEO of Voicescom, is also the son of the recently deceased
Supreme Court Justice, sandra Day O'Connor, and he also works for
Morgan Stanley.
03:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
And Morgan Stanley was the company that put $17 million investment
into Voicescom, not a voiceover company.
03:13 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Not a voiceover company. They invested that roughly six, seven
years ago. So I'm assuming that David Cicerelli stepped down
because he didn't come through on his promise to make their money
back. So that's why they put one of their own people in there. So
I'm assuming Jay's job is very simple make their money back. So
that's just kind of the background. And JMC who I just had him on
my Ask Me Anything said that one of the conditions of Jay appearing
at VO Atlanta was that he apologized for the past business
practices and behaviors. So it made me think about the word
responsible. Jay was not CEO of Voicescom when all the interesting
stuff happened. However, if you break down the word responsible,
it's response able able to respond.
03:57
Oh, I like that Well yeah because, if you think about it, Jay is
not guilty of the stuff that Voicescom did under their previous
administration, but now he is able to respond to all of that stuff.
So you know that late last year Voicescom signed the Fair Voices
Pledge and altered their terms of service, the Fair AI.
04:19
Thank you Nava and Tim Freelander and Karin and all those wonderful
people there. So what was extra funny is I was sitting next to
Miranda Ellis, who's our buddy, who helps run VA for VO, and we
were talking about it. We're wondering who's that guy up there? And
then I was telling her about the whole Jay O'Connor thing and then
JMC said and here is CEO of Voicescom, jay O'Connor, and we're like
oh okay, there he is.
04:47
And yes, he did apologize. He gave them an F for how they handled
the situation, but they said they're going to be working on moving
forward and a lot of pointed questions were asked. I was surprised
that he was there. I was surprised at the apology. I think he
handled most of the questions from the audience pretty well, pretty
professionally.
05:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
I wasn't surprised at the apology. I mean, j Michael basically said
are you prepared to apologize? And when you are a CEO of a company,
I mean at some point, like I imagine, you're going to work that out
politically correctly in front of an audience of thousands, knowing
that we would be talking about this. What was he going to say? To
be quite honest, I mean, I wasn't surprised that he apologized. I
wasn't surprised that he took Jay Michael on it, because, guess
what, there's business for him sitting there in the
audience.
05:33 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Oh yeah, potential customers. There was a sea of potential
customers in there and ones who had left the platform who now could
be persuaded to return to the platform as well. I did make it a
point to talk to him afterwards. I as well. I did make it a point
to talk to him afterwards. I first said I'm sorry about your
mother's recent passing.
05:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Oh, thank you.
05:47 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
I say thank you on behalf of I know he's a person.
05:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
He is a person, yeah, Like he's just a guy.
05:52 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
He probably didn't know Voicescom existed, right? So, like he
doesn't know about this stuff and we have to give him the benefit
of the doubt, of course of the doubt, we have to assume he's an
ethical, response-able person and I said hey, if you need some
insight from boots-on-the-ground people, let me know. I gave him my
card. He said thank you, he was very kind. So am I optimistic about
Voicescom? Cautiously pessimistic? No, yeah, cautiously optimistic.
So I'll say cautiously pessimistic. But you know what? I'll tell
you something, anne. I rejoined in September of 2023 because they
did change their terms of service, they did sign the Fair Voices
Pledge and also, as the VO strategist, I have students who want to
understand what's going on and if it should be used and how it
should be used Yep.
06:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
completely agree with that. So if nothing else.
06:39 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
I wanted to create an account to understand how the platform
functions, how to feed the algorithm.
06:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
If we are going to be working with students I mean myself included.
I mean honestly. I mean we have to know about these platforms so
that we can talk about them and recommend them or not to our
students. So I feel like I'm a member of Voice123. Now I will say
that I was not able to stay for the full session at VO Atlanta
because literally they scheduled that right in the middle of my X
session, so after 20 minutes I had to leave and so I did not get a
chance to speak to him myself personally. But I know a lot of
people that I've talked to did, and Mark Scott also did a nice
recap on his podcast about the conversation and his conversation
with him as well, and myself and Law had a discussion about it as
well on a podcast. So I think it's good that we're talking about
it. But I'd like to go further, tom. I'd like to talk to you about
pay-to-plays in general, what part they play now in the voiceover
industry and where you might see them going in the
future.
07:36 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
It's funny because maybe 15 years ago they were a disruptive force
in the voiceover industry, not unlike AI right now, which is
currently a disruptive force in the voiceover industry. And, like
I've said about AI and you and I talked about this a couple of
episodes ago when it comes to disruptive technologies or business
models, you can fight it, you can ignore it, you can adapt to it or
you can embrace it. So everybody has their own journey and their
own path on how to define success as a voice actor and what they
need to do. You want to do all high-end cartoons and video games.
You need representation. You need to join SAG-AFTRA. You may need
to move to LA or New York or Dallas and do a boots-on-the-ground
thing. If you want to narrate audiobooks, that's a different track.
If you want to narrate e-learning modules, that's a different
track. The best way that I can illustrate this is talking about my
journey on Voice123. I joined Voice123 in 2006.
08:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
no-transcript.
08:49 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Yeah, I joined it the first year that I went full-time as a voice
actor. I learned a lot on there.
08:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
It wasn't my first year as a voice actor, but it might've been my
second or third, and it was an opportunity. It was a new
opportunity to get work, and I remember at the time. How else did
you get work outside of if you had an agent? I did not have an
agent at the time. I was working on the online platforms like
Freelancer back in the day I mean, it was Freelancer, I don't know
if it was Odesk.
09:18 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Odesk Elance, Elance.
09:23 - Intro (Announcement)
I was on all those too.
09:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
I was on all of those too, and then Voice123 came out and I joined
in 2006 as well, and actually it worked well for me Although you
have actually created a record of how well you've done on that
platform throughout the years, and so I'm eager to hear about
that.
09:42 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Sure. So for those of you who are listening to this, I'll just read
this to you as best I can, but I've got a little slide up here. So
I joined in 2006. There was only one tier, it was $200. That first
year, I made $1,100. So a great return on investment. Next year,
rejoined, made $2,750. So that was great. 2008, it went up to $300.
I made $2,650. 2009, made $1,. I made $2650,. 2009, made $1950,.
2010, I made $13,000.
10:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
What changed.
10:09 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
I got better at auditioning and I also landed a big textbook like a
science textbook. So that was a big chunk of that
$13,000.
10:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
So let me ask you, in those years, in those early years, how many
auditions were you doing? Were you doing 10 a day, 20 a day, as
many as possible?
10:26 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
I was doing a lot less than that. I was doing a handful a day, but
also my direct marketing strategies were working pretty well, so it
was complementing. So I was blogging and doing social media and
posting on Facebook and Twitter and stuff like that, so it was part
of a balanced breakfast, absolutely. 2011, made almost $8,000.
2012, I renewed, but I only made $350. Now what happened in 2012 is
that my voiceover career turned the corner. I went full-time in
2006, but late 2011, all the seeds I'd been planting for all those
years started to bloom. So I found myself auditioning a lot less
because I was just booking a lot more as a result of my direct
marketing strategy.
11:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Right and then also probably repeat clients at that time were
starting. I was also getting repeat clients.
11:13 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
So yeah, so that was happening too. Now, in 2013, I did not renew.
I made only $300 just from a legacy client. But the main reason I
didn't renew is because there was a cultural thing going on in
voiceover where a lot of voice actors were saying that if you are
on a pay-to-play site, you are contributing to the lowering of
rates, you are a bottom feeder, you're enabling predatory
practices, and I made the dumbest decision in my voiceover career,
which was I stopped auditioning on Voice123. It was a huge mistake.
So, 2014, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, I made virtually nothing because I
didn't have a paid account.
11:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
But also what happened in those years. Had you gone more to direct
methods of marketing? Yes, okay.
11:57 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Yes, direct marketing was my main jam. 2014 was, to be totally
honest, and that was the year I made the most money as a voice
actor. And then in 2015, 16, 17, 18, my income started fluctuating
wildly $20,000, $30,000 rises and falls year over year. One of my
top 10 clients replaced me with AI back then too.
12:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
In what year was that?
12:18 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
That was 2018, I think, A top 10 client. I was replaced by AI and
then 2019, I made nothing. 2019 also, there was like a major
downshift in my voiceover revenue because I noticed almost all of
my direct marketing strategy stopped working. So did I all of a
sudden become a lousy voice actor? Maybe Did industry trends change
and my voice was out of fashion? Definitely not. It was becoming
even more in fashion more young, energetic, friendly guy next door
sound, which is still in demand. So, after contemplation and
talking to friends and professionals, I rejoined for $888 in 2020.
And now there was a tiered plan.
12:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Yeah, exactly I was going to say at this point bosses, pay-to-plays
evolved. They used to be just one fee and it was usually around
$200 to $300. I remember when Voicescom came on the scene it was
the cheaper of the two, for $200, when Voice 123 was at $295, I
believe, or something like that. And so then there was a bunch of
people that joined Voicescom because they kind of undercut the
competition, so to speak, which maybe we should have looked at that
in the beginning and said, oh, look at that Now there's competition
in the online community and online casting community because
Voicescom was the second, I would say, largest platform to come out
and they grew fairly quickly, I think because of that lower price
point.
13:42
And they also did a bunch of good marketing, I would say, on
Google. I think they did a bunch of Google ads and they had a bunch
of. Seo that they were working on, and so they became really,
really popular around that time.
13:58 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
So what happened in 2020 when I rejoined? So I rejoined like it was
a Black Friday sale. Basically, I had one month and in one month I
made $1,300. But here's what I noticed. Well, I made my money back
immediately. But the other thing I noticed is that when you're on
Voice123 and you can click on the client number, sometimes you can
see an email address associated with that client profile and often
it's the extension of productioncompanycom and I started noticing
production companies that I used to work with or that on Voice123.
So I was like oh, interesting. So apparently there has been a
migration of ethical, well-paying production companies making
quality content that had been slowly making their way to Voice123
and probably Voicescom too, because it's easier to curate a roster,
it's easier to post an audition.
14:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Oh my gosh, yeah, you have hundreds and thousands of people of
different voices on these platforms and it can be a little bit
cheaper. I know that was the whole thing, because here you're not
necessarily saying how much will it cost, right, when you have a
direct contact, versus specify your budget, right? A lot of these
pay-to-plays asked you to specify a budget and so if you specified
a lower budget, you could still have hundreds of people responding
to this, because it was like freelancer Odesk. It started to become
the lowest bid, wins almost.
15:23 - Intro (Announcement)
Yes.
15:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Like kind of thought, and especially when you're talking after the
many years of online casting, it just then became a thing where,
oh, I can get cheaper voiceover, and for a business, right, I can
have lots of different voices I can choose from and it's probably
cheaper. And so for a business, I mean really, where's that
business decision, unless you've caught them right and you've
become like a valued voiceover actor for them, that you've given
them value over and over and over again. Now, all of a sudden, they
have hundreds of thousands of people they can choose from that are
credible, right, and they're cheaper. So business decision,
tom?
16:00 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Yeah, here's the thing about that too is like since 2020, since I
rejoined, my gigs aren't $100 or $200. They're $4, $5, $6, over
$1,000.
16:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Because you can specify that.
16:15 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Because I can specify that and that also tells me that there are
ethical, well-paying production companies on Voice123 in addition
to bottom feeders. So in spring of 2021, the algorithm changed All
of a sudden. The auditions there was a lot less and they were a lot
lower paying, so I didn't renew.
16:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Well, they redid their platform a couple of times completely. So
that caused a lot of commotion in the voiceover world.
16:35
And, interestingly enough, tom, I just want to bring this up who
else was sitting on that stage at VO Atlanta but Rolf Veldman, who
was always the one from Voice123 that got a lot of heat from these
conferences. But I love Rolf. I think, rolf, he took it year after
year after year right as a person who was not necessarily in the
voiceover business either, but he would show up and he would
respond and he was, I believe, transparent, which then I gave him
my respect for that Because, if nothing else, he was
transparent.
17:11
He finally was on the stage and probably going wow, the guy from
Voicescom is getting all the heat this year.
17:18 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Oh, he was grinning from ear to ear. He was eating it with a spoon.
He loved it. So 2022, I rejoined again, but this time I joined on
the $2,200 tier. So this was late March 2022. In that year, I made
$12,000. And then 2023, which is my first full calendar year of
being under the $2,200 tier, I made almost $19,000.
17:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
That's a definite return on investment. So.
17:42 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Yeah, and as of this year, 2022, and today, as of literally today,
April, I have made $6,200.
17:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Now is the majority of that from new clients or clients that are
coming back to you.
17:55 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Well, that's the thing, it's a combination. So there's two sets of
clients, you know, there's your audition and pray clients, and then
there's your legacy clients.
18:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Audition and pray Yep, absolutely Right.
18:06 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Commercials tend to be audition and pray. Cartoons, video games
tend to be audition and pray. E-learning, corporate explainer, more
of the audio book. Often those tend to be non-audition and pray
because often you join an e-learning roster or you join a telephony
roster and you don't audition, they just send you work. So with
Voice123, there's a lot of them. One particular one comes to mind I
auditioned for a corporate, short, three-minute, corporate
industrial about bananas in a grocery store. If you work in the
produce department, how do you handle the bananas to make sure they
don't bruise, how to display them properly, quality check and all
that stuff. It was a gig. Three minutes directed session, $550. So
I'm like okay, that's like right in the sweet spot for that. That's
like perfectly fine For three minutes directed session, great. And
then they sent me nine more without auditioning.
18:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
19:00 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
So an audition in Prey see, that's what people think about Voice123
is that it's an audition in Prey machine. It is if you suck, and it
is if you can't audition well, and it is if you can't deliver the
goods once you audition and book the spot. So I do have a lot of
new clients, but a lot of them, a lot of them, have come back for
more.
19:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
And with Voice123,. One of the big differences of the platforms is
that you can take the client off the platform. They have never
intercepted and I don't believe that they will, because I think
that's Rolf's claim to fame and how they lasted right through the
turmoil of people being angry at them was that you could always
take the client off the platform. Now, voicescom does everything in
their power to make you not take the client off the platform, and
that is where they get into people labeling them as double and
triple dippers.
19:50
So not only are you paying for that yearly membership fee and they
also have different levels. But when you have a managed job or any
job you cannot disclose, you won't know their email address, you
cannot work with them off platform and people have been threatened
if it's found out that they're working with them off platform. So
thoughts on that business policy. Tom, what do you think about
that?
20:17 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
I'm going to answer that question with a question. Do you think
voice actors should pay to audition for anything?
20:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Well, you know, yeah, that's a really, really good question. I
mean, I don't think so.
20:27 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
I don't think so to a point.
20:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
I think they should pay for a platform that gives them
opportunities. So that's a tough one, right? I mean should they pay
to audition.
20:38 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Well, I think of it this way If you told me 20, 25 years ago that I
would have to pay to watch a Yankee game on television, I would
have said you're out of your mind. And now they have the yes
Network, where you have to pay to have access to get the quality
content that you want. That being a Yankee game and auditions are
quality content and that's a subscription model of a lot of
businesses today.
21:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Right, and even I've considered it for this podcast, right, all
right, so you can get a certain amount of listens free, but there
is quality content or maybe more in-depth content that you would
subscribe to.
21:13 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
And you do keep it with subscriptions, like Patreon pages do, and
things like that. Yes, it's a common business model. Here's another
question Do you think voice actors should get paid to do
auditions?
21:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Well, that's a good question. Not necessarily. It depends on if
that gets used right, If their audition gets used for the job, if
you're getting paid.
21:32 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Is it a demo or a scratch track?
21:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. But now, okay, let's just say
you pay for the option or you pay for the opportunity to get
auditions. Should then there be an escrow fee? Right, and that's
what a lot of people have the problem with an escrow fee. And
should there be a managed services fee? And should there be a
managed services fee? Now, anybody that manages a job, right that
project, manages the job. A manager takes a percentage, an agent
takes a percentage, but then on top of an annual fee right to
audition, plus an escrow fee. Now, if you remember, tom, in the
beginning Voicescom's escrow fee was an option and I believe is it
still an option. If you want to do, because escrow was an option
back in the early days, you could choose to have them hold the
money or say I'm going to get my money guaranteed if I put it in
escrow, and then you paid a fee for that.
22:27 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
I think it's mandatory now.
22:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Yeah, yeah, so that's triple dipping to a lot of people right, Get
rid of one of those fees, I mean do you feel that's
right.
22:40 - Intro (Announcement)
I mean, I think it's fair that it's either you pay to be on the
site and there's no additional fees or being on the website is free
and then they're taking a percentage of it, not both.
22:48 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Now, you weren't there for the Q&A. Our friend, miranda Ellis,
who I was sitting next to in the audience, got up and she said I
have a problem with the fact that one of the casting spec options
is broadcast in perpetuity. And she said that's a big problem for a
lot of voice actors because that can create permanent conflicts.
She asked are you going to get rid of that? And he said no, because
we would lose a lot of business that way. That's not a good answer.
That's the only thing I was truly unhappy about with his answers,
but he owned it.
23:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Yeah, honestly, I think that it's a responsible action for an
online platform like that to like lead the way. Right, because
here's the deal. Right, you're talking about consumer mentality. I
mean in voiceover jobs, I mean if people are not used to. If you're
a small company, you're not used to hiring a voice artist and
you're not sure, like, how does that work? Right, I mean in
perpetuity. I mean if you work for a company, right, and they hire
you, you sign a contract, you're working full-time, everything you
do for that company is property of the company, and that just
became that same mentality. Right for the freelancers Okay, I'm
going to pay you.
23:53
Work for hire yeah work for hire and I pay you and that's it, and
that's where the mentality stayed for a lot of companies. I think
if you are a large service provider to a voiceover, you should take
the lead and do what's right and do what's ethical, and that to me
would be like start it and say no in perpetuity. There's not an
option for in perpetuity.
24:14 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Right.
24:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
And that would be a nice thing. Otherwise we sit here and we fight,
and we fight, and we fight like we've always fought right To get
rid of in perpetuity. Do you think in perpetuity will ever go away,
tom?
24:24 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
I think it will always exist in some form yeah, I agree.
24:30
The thing that concerns me the most about it is that, like, if
there's a casting notice and it says erotic, there is explicit
sexual content. Everybody knows what that means. They know what
they're getting into. If it's a casting notice for a political ad
Democrat, republican or whatever you look at the script and you go
oh okay, do I feel comfortable with this? You know what you're
getting into. You can make a value decision. If it's these
text-to-speech things, some of these casting notices, or if it's an
online perpetuity, a lot of the voice actors don't know what that
means. They don't know what they're getting into, and that's where
SAG-AFTRA, nava and other organizations that's where the onus is on
them to educate, to make sure that people are aware of what these
things mean. That should not be the case. Voicescom should not have
that option or the ability to modify the option.
25:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Exactly. You know what I mean Exactly.
25:17 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
Because there's genres and sub-genres. You know like, if you want a
public service announcement forever to technically broadcast and
have that be in perpetuity, you can make a case for that.
25:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
You know what I mean.
25:27 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
But it's too broad and it isn't explained. There should be like a
little button or a little like question mark or a little thing next
to it. You click on that and it's like this is what this
means.
25:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
And voice actors should have been educated many, many, many years
ago, right? And what does it mean when you deliver an audio file,
right? This is where, okay, we're creatives, we're good at what we
do, but we also this is where the business sense comes in. Right,
here, have my audio.
25:53
And usually what happens is something bad has to happen for us to
like say, oh shoot, I probably should have a terms of service or a
statement of work or a contract for all our non-broadcast stuff. So
all our non-broadcast people are like, yeah, sure, give me a
hundred dollars or give me $500, give me a thousand, that's
perfect. And then all of a sudden, they find that their voice is
out there on TikTok, you know, I mean, I'm not saying that that was
Bev, but things like that happen, right. Or it even happens today
with agents that are looking after our best interests, where
sometimes you'll find a commercial that was supposed to only be
regional which is now in a different place. And how do we know
about it? Not until somebody tells us about it. And so we should.
Now, with the technology, there should be a way to voice print and
tag our audio so that we know if it's not where it should be, and
it's being used.
26:41 - Tom Dheere (Co-host)
And they're working on that? Yeah, exactly, they are working on
that, exactly.
26:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)
Wow, I really feel as though we should have a part two and a part
three and a part four with this conversation. But wow, tom, good
stuff. Thank you so much for sharing. I love that you shared the
real numbers. I mean, anybody that knows me knows how much I love
talking numbers because it really brings a level of realism to the
bosses and I think that we all need to really see those numbers and
it really helps to educate us on making good decisions for our
businesses. So, thank you, tom, it was wonderful talking to you
again and I look forward to the next podcast. Bosses, I'm going to
give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can
connect and network like bosses real bosses like Tom and myself.
Find out more at IPDTLcom. All right, have an amazing week, guys,
and we'll see you next week. Bye.
27:33 - Intro (Announcement)
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